Ethics Fun
Any debates?
Feel free to argue them here, and once again, as we're dealing with touchy topics here, let's all be nice, respect each other's values, and their choice (and hence, their choice to be wrong ;) )
I think that some of us brought up topics today that were either shut down quickly, or were misconstrued.
Evan, for instance, you were saying that education is often coersion; I think Kara, you picked up on this later...
To what extent will our bias always affect the way we inform patients, and hence affect their decisions?
So, kids, don't be shy -- although you may not want to publically state your opinion and run the risk of embarrassing yourself, I value your try more than your debate, and hey -- it will make for fun reading (no offence to those who rather enjoy NADH+H+, just slightly dry for me :p )
You know you'll all enjoy it, just like the camp you never wanted to go on and loved.
Enjoy the M2006 Comm Games!
with love,
Tim
Feel free to argue them here, and once again, as we're dealing with touchy topics here, let's all be nice, respect each other's values, and their choice (and hence, their choice to be wrong ;) )
I think that some of us brought up topics today that were either shut down quickly, or were misconstrued.
Evan, for instance, you were saying that education is often coersion; I think Kara, you picked up on this later...
To what extent will our bias always affect the way we inform patients, and hence affect their decisions?
So, kids, don't be shy -- although you may not want to publically state your opinion and run the risk of embarrassing yourself, I value your try more than your debate, and hey -- it will make for fun reading (no offence to those who rather enjoy NADH+H+, just slightly dry for me :p )
You know you'll all enjoy it, just like the camp you never wanted to go on and loved.
Enjoy the M2006 Comm Games!
with love,
Tim
posted by timfazio at
3:36 pm
6 Comments:
If we wanna have more than one debate going, perhaps start a new post.
Anyway:
Why should patients be able to decide their own treatment? They know nothing about medicine, and are extremely biased. Doctors should have the final say, and rather than the patient being fully informed by the doctor, the doctor should be fully informed of the patient's opinions, and make a decision based on that.
Any conflict between doctor and patient should be referred to a higher board (much like the one for those with intellectual disabilities to deal with sterilization), which will then determine what is best for the patient.
There's my two cents, once again, for free :)
Tim
By
timfazio, at 3:51 pm
rather than have the patient consider the doctor's opinion in what they shall chose as the best treatment option, i am proposing that the doctor shall decide the best treatment option, rather than the patient; the doctor shall, however, be required to take into consideration the patient's opinion, values, etc.
the debate lives on.
By
timfazio, at 6:08 pm
Ahhh....
excellent. a good ol' fashioned arguement :)
firstly, jess, it does follow the idea of 'doctor knows best'. Sadly, your's follows the idea of 'patient knows best', which is just as comical :)
as you so wonderfully pointed out, some patients are incredibly stupid: interestingly, our society deems 'too stupid' to be less than IQ70. They don't have the rights to make their own decisions, they don't know best. Neither do children, unconscious people, and i'm sure there's others, if i bothered doing some research.
secondly, thanks kara. in a perfect world i'm right. lol -- at least i got some credit :p
doctors who are naughty... hmm, sure, agreed, that'd a downside. how about my earlier proposal of the board which resolves patient/dr conflict, similar to the one of an intellectual disability decision making board (did i actually post that earlier, or am i imagining it?)
ahh, pat's just pulled up to take me to uni. i'll rebutt later!
oh, and for all those who said i was infringing on patient autonomy. that's my whole point :D
ciao for now,
with love,
tim
By
timfazio, at 9:29 am
Ahhh jess,
the immature, IB TOK view of truth. lol. jk.
i disagree with you though (funnily enough).
and i quote:
"The problem is, you can't tell people what's right for them. There is no such thing as truth, only our perception of it, and although it most certainly shouldn't stop us from striving to attain truth and understand the reality of our world, "reality" is in fact only what is agreed upon by the majority. "
You can tell people what's right for them -- you just might not like it. As for, there is no such thing as truth, only our perception of it, or our belief.
If I walk out into the rain, and believe there is no rain, i will still get wet. sadly, he who said there is no spoon was wrong.
the notion that 'this is true for me, and that's fine. it doesn't have to be true for you', can only be applied to a certain extent.
blue is the prettiest colour, for instance, is a good example of it.
belief of religion, on the otherhand, is much more fun, and without getting into either a theologic discussion, or offending anyone, it is a fantastic example to use.
given that there are more than two religions, at least half of them must be wrong. and given that majority have a strong stance that it's their way or the highway, it means that either one is right, or they all are wrong. once again, a fun point.
christianity, for example, states that everyone has a choice as to what they believe. but just because they believe something, doesn't mean it's right -- we have the right to believe in something that isn't true. that doesn't make that thing true however.
hence, yes. sure, why can't we tell people what is right. (i already see so many ways you can shut me down, but, i shall carry on, for the sake of interesting reading).
to quote futher:
"We may very well know better than your patients - but you can never know for certain that you know better. At least afford them the dignity of having some say in what chemicals you're pumping into them or how exactly you're going to slice them open and fiddle around with their innards."
i did give them the chance to voice their opinion. as for people being minions!! of course they are, lol.
why did no one complain 50 years ago about choice? ignorance is bliss:)
did i make a point today? i'm not quite sure. but i did have fun at least rambling.
with love,
as always
tim
By
timfazio, at 7:44 pm
what a fun day,
just got home from work. yay! i'll get to spend 7 hours at home, lol.
oh dear.
jess, you think i may have a point? ooooh. perhaps i took this thing too far. hmm. :p
was going to continue about the man who had an infected toe nail and wanted to have his leg amputated to prevent risk. would you do, just because he wants it?
also could look at euthanasia here.... put that would open lots and lots of cans of worms, and nobody likes worms. aside from fish?
i am glad, however, that everybody is beginning to question society and what we're taught! oh, my kids, you're all growing up so fast. lol. i'd make such a good.. (was trying to think of a job where patronising was necessary, but couldn't, so) [insert job here].
to actually state my point on this, now that we've had our fun: i would allow the jehovah's witness to refuse, based on religious reasoning, not medical ones...
i believe (but not necessarily for the purpose of this debate) that patient opinion is very VERY important. psychosomatic symptoms, and biopsychosocial interactions all indicate that if patients are happier/more comfortable then they heal better. also, if a patient is physically bad, why not try to make them emotionally good.
i think though, that there comes a point where it gets downright silly for a patient to say no, in which case, i think it should go to an ethics board (according to house, the hospitals have these). i think the right to decide should be transferred to somebody thinking in their best interests (much like a disabled person).
so that's what i think marina.
but now i've been awake for 17 hours, and home for less than one, and i need sleep (mind you, the lecture did help for that :) mmm sleeeep )
nunnite kids.
dltbbb.
tim
By
timfazio, at 12:11 am
well.
what a fun debate.
no hard feelings jess :p
yes, i could just keep on arguing for the sake of it, but we're in a new week now!!!
so we need a new topic.
first one in gets to decide their side:P
i'll start a new section for word of the week too.
cheers to all participants.
with love,
tim
By
timfazio, at 11:38 pm
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